BOB: My daughter was 13 when I went inside. Now she's 36, so quite a few years (in between). (before being released on parole in 2021) the last time I saw my daughter was when she came in (to the prison) with her mother in 2005, and I haven't seen her since. My ex didn’t bother to bring her in for a contact visit, which I could have had, you know, so like I was just cut completely cut off... from the outside world.
How was it developing this ‘cut off’ with the family?
Well, my ex used to come in and see me and talk to me, but she couldn't bring my children in at that stage; I was in the Remand Centre. But later when, in 2002... I think somewhere around that... right after 2005 - the ex used to come in and have contact visits and bring the children in... You've got to be well-behaved (...) If you don't behave right, you don't get to see anybody.
But that's not really fair. It is, you know, you know, the only punishment should be the fact that you have been in there. That you are in a prison.
Yes, but they have different rules. Your punishment is (about) being in there, but also, they punish you on top of your punishment. And I think that's wrong. And a lot of people just go off the rails because they're all in there for their punishment, but they're being punished on top of their punishment. And I think that's wrong. And the public don't know it.
How do you think it affects people?
It really affects them. Yeah, it did me because you couldn't... until I learned to understand the good side of being respectable to them and treating them just like... Well, it's not their problem that you're in there. And you're in there because you, you did wrong and they're there to actually look after you, but there's a lot that don't... they think they're a cut above because they put a uniform on and you see these movies where they treat their inmates so bad, whether they watch them or not. And I try the same tactics...
You told me how badly they beat you up at the police station...
Yeah. The police. Yeah, the police station. Yep. They tied me to a meal bar by handcuffs. They can do whatever they want and not leave a mark that, that I can use them for. And they could beat me all day, but they knew where to do it and I caused probably a lot of damage to me in my stomach by punching me in the stomach. And, you know, they could have brought my cancer on... because my doctor said in one way it might be the cause, and stress, strain.
But did you think at that stage that...
No, I didn't think anything...
No I am asking if you consider to actually report about it.
Well... and not in that era, it would’t matter. You could you could report then to whom? To blow it in the face because of my requests to see my family....
When was it?
Oh, heaps of times while I was in there, like going through my stages, and of they say you want anything, bring it down to reception, you take it down to reception... Yeah we'll handle it... and - straight into the bin.
How long it took you to actually from the moment of being arrested and then staying on uh, waiting for trial, etc., etc., to see your family?
Eighteen months.
Then you go to Risdon, you know, you I was in Remand Centre for 18 months.
Right? And this is 18 months where you can't see anyone...
I can't do nothing. I can have what they call ‘box visits”. It's so they're in a screen and there's a Perspex window which is unbreakable and you can talk through the person through that. But these are the wire mesh things. But yeah, couple of them.
That was only Tanya who was allowed to see you?
Yes.
No one else? Not children at that time?
No.
How long did you stay in Risdon before they actually allowed you to see your children?
It would have been probably two years.
Really?
Yeah.
So got to go through the system, they've got a system worked out, and you've got to go by it, and you'll go to wait and go through that like everybody.
Two years. That's long.
Yeah. But it depends on the case. So if you're in there for family violence and, and she decides she won’t bring the children in that's a problem but... there's a different rules for different circumstances and different categories. So the murderers are in a different category and they don't get virtually nothing and what the other guys probably have when you get in for driving charges...
Do you think it was good for your kids to actually come and see you two years later? For me to see my children. But it's. Yeah, you don't know what it does to children its stress, stress wise to them, it's because they come to see ya and now knowing that they love you, but they're leaving you and I doubt at that stage I would now understand why I, because they're so young and, and being the first time, you know that you're away from your family, it's we don't know what goes through their minds.
How Melissa was acting. Do you remember how she was interacting with you at that day....
My children were just the same, like... there was nothing like... as far as far as I think.
So did they give you a hug...
Oh, yeah. Yeah, And kisses. Of course, all of that... they are my children...
Did they ask about anything?
They... I don't know what went on with their mother, but when she come to visit with the children, ... to system and I used to ring her up every night even though they weren't there, you know, ringing them every night to say how they were and everything.
And when she did come in the late in the afternoon to have the visits, contact visits, I will rang her that night to make sure she got home well. And I used to write poems and everything. And, you know, until it got at that stage that I just couldn't... to a virtually when I’m, I asked her for the divorce...
I understand but Tanya, she has stopped visiting you after while...
It was my idea, I told her.
But it means that also your kids will stop visiting you... .
Well, I didn't think that she would stop that. So it. But yeah, that happened. I realized that.
She likes to tell you the truth, that exactly what I said to her. And she said, Well, don't you love us anymore...
Aren't you going to come? I won't say no. I said 25 years. I'm not coming out of here, you know, because that's what I thought. I didn't think that you'd get parole.
So, you got divorced, And then at some stage, your children are not coming anymore. Is what happened?
Yeah, well she couldn't that couldn't... they were too young to drive themselves.
So, she stopped coming.
Yeah. Because they didn't have licence.
She is not coming, and that’s it. And you are still trying to call and...
Yeah, I used to... rang through the system and spoke to them and that, but I spoke to her and I asked how the children were and like when I was home I used to work to the school with the children or both of us did, and pick them up or when I got the bus from Sorell, I'd go from Mod way to Sorell to wait for the bus...
How important was it for you in Risdon to know what's going on at home?
You’re left suspended. It's like your mind runs away itself. You think of things that's not happening and you think the things that, well, you don't think are things that does happen.
So what were you thinking?
Wondering what's going on, where they are and what they're doing? No day for day and it's, it's really stressful. And I a lot of people wouldn't understand what it's like to be locked up like that. And little rooms, tiny little room lock only from there to about probably light. That's that's as long and as wide as what your room is. And it's all concrete. There's no, no carpets on the floor and nothing lie on or nothing, you know, it's just...
Is it this at this stage you actually trying to do everything to get this kids to talk to you on the phone. You write, you write letters or you simply gave up?
I wrote letters after letters after letters, and I'll take them because in prison you're only got a certain amount of time before they come and shoot your lights off. You got no lights on inside. You kind of switch on and off when you feel like it. The switches outside, you're locked in lock and key and bolt. No. And or I lock in a proper lock and they pull a speed shutter for and put the lock in and that's it. Big steel door. And it's about probably five or six inches thick.
You know, you got bars all your windows...
And you kept writing...
And you write until 9 o’clock and then I just come around, look through the window and right: lights out! And when you have half done it finished or what, that it, in the bed, you can't do any more.
Do you remember what you were actually writing to your kids... Have you written separate letters to Bob and Melissa?
Oh, no, no, no. I'd write the one letter to Tanya and ask how they are and everything and what they're doing to school and all that. And sometimes I would ring her up, through the system because that's all I had, and you couldn't ring up all the time because you only put a certain amount of money on that.
And when that money goes, you've got to wait till next time. Be before they put the money on. Take it out of your earnings and put it in. Doesn't matter if it's the day of ringing up, they say, no, it doesn't go on till next Tuesday or Wednesday like that or or 10:00 in the morning or 3:00 in the afternoon. That's what it used to go on. So, you couldn't do nothing till then. And when you had the money they draw it out of you earnings and put it on and $50 in you know. Well that didn't last long at all because they, they had to go through exchanges...
And also, as I understand, there are time limitations because other people want to use the phone.
Exactly. That's all just about to say that you took right out of my mouth. Now, you got 10 minutes and that 10 minutes like seems like two minutes... it go so quick because you got so many in the yard and the one phone and everybody saying: come on, I want to make a call, look at the time, we've gonna to be locked up in a few minutes, and you've got to write on the board all your times when you want to ring your Misses, or whatever girlfriend, whatever that time is every night or every afternoon that time is what you're ring they know of the next bloke's are all in line. Like you are marching, in line, and all those numbers, all cell names is on that board. And if you if you are not there at that particular time to get your phone call, you don't get none that day, that night. All the others get it and you've lost out.
Do you remember any guys around you that were not doing it, like not having anyone to call...
Some blokes, some blokes was taking over the blokes and I had two or three calls....
No, I am just asking, do you remember any guys who actually didn't have anyone to call.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh yes. Lots of blokes like that.
And how do you think it was affecting them?
Oh, some bloke wanted to commit suicide and I saved a couple of them in there and then the office got to, to hearing about it and then when blokes one day was I'm now sending them up so I got to go around to their cell. So one bloke, he strip the wires on the plug from the TV and rapped it up that all he had to do is to plug it into the wall and switch it on and he was gone..
Did he succeed?
No, no. Because I stopped him.